kiki_miserychic

LOLZ, I don't know if I'm as smart as that kid. There might be an actual reason no one has done it...

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I've been paying attention and the issues are becoming clouded. I don't even understand it fully anymore (if I ever did).

OMG, me too on wanting tacos. I mentally calculated if it was worth it to go to Taco Bell right now.

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danegen.livejournal.com

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halcyon-shift.livejournal.com

I'm not really following the back and forth (I get the digest from others *g*), but maybe because it's not so much about the numbers. Like, if one person has a valid issue (for instance, I know there's more than one, but go with me) and a hundred people don't - or vote without understanding that issue - then it's weighted against something that should be dealt with?

That's the sort of thing that would stop me putting something to a poll. I have no idea if that's applicable in this case - maybe they didn't think about it, or they're just trying to figure out how to present it.

Also, I now want tacos.

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Deciding on the descriptors would be a numbers issue, I think.

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thuviaptarth.livejournal.com

I'm not sure people have finished not listening to each other yet.

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crickets.livejournal.com

I pretty much disagree with the whole idea of it from an artists standpoint. Completely.

Maybe that makes me insensitive or a jerk or whatever, but I can't make myself feel any differently.

As someone who has been a contributing member for the past 2 years [and would have been this year if I could have afforded it] and who has one vid [not-premiering] that will be played at the con this year, the only thing I might be okay with would be a standard-type rating system a la the MPAA or the TV-Ratings system. Not that those warn for triggers at all, of course. But I am just really, really against this. So some 'standardized' warning would be the only acceptable thing for me.

I think discussing it in the actual community wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing. However, I don't think that there's even any group of suggestions that they could put in a poll that the majority would agree upon.

I kind of resent this whole thing actually, but I haven't had enough time to really consider it to put into words why.

Edited Date: 2010-07-03 08:26 pm (UTC)

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Eeek, yeah, that wouldn't be worth it. :(

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YES, I love gif replies. :)

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Very true.

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The more I read, the less I understand. I think I'm going to reserve my opinion until it's informed. I thought I knew what was going on, but I do not know.

I have my own issues with the MPAA system, which is a whole other thing.

I've read

astolat's vividcon open policy suggestion (http://astolat.livejournal.com/227907.html) post and that seems to be the most viable in terms of agreement. There are suggestions and modifications being being made at the moment.

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I think the problem is that you can only put two options to a vote in a demogratic way if both options are ethical, legal and morally right. Like, for example Obama or Clintion for president. But it would unethical (and unconstitutional) to ask people to vote on women's suffrage, even if there was a majority in favour of abandoning it.

At the moment I think there is no agreement in the community in which category the warning issue falls, and from what I have read I don't think it's likely that people will agree on that any time soon.

I've stopped reading about it, it's like watching a dog with rabies chasing it's own tail. I'm sure I can accommodate whatever the outcome of the discussion is.

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LJ polls allow more options than 2 and more ways than just radio buttons. My understanding of a poll on LJ is not it is not a binding thing.

There seems to be no outcome in the future on any issues I've seen.

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I've stopped reading about it, it's like watching a dog with rabies chasing it's own tail.
&hearts

Also, yo, are you going to VVC? I saw somewhere that maybe you were...

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The more I read, the less I understand.
I could apply this so broadly... it pretty much sums up my entire experience of fandom. And why I am largely avoidy of it these days. ;) I have found that increased reading in fandom has a detrimental affect on my mental clarity on any issue. :)

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I don't think I'll ever be able to say I'm fully informed.

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LOL, I love that place.

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Brillant!

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morgandawn.livejournal.com

A poll (after the suggestions and input die down) would be a good thing for information purposes. I wouldn't use it (if it were me running the convention) as a binding vote - but if I were consider X policy, I'd want to know how people would react and what it might do to convention participation.

The problem is - sometimes simply by putting up a poll - people demand that the majority should rule, which may not be a good thing.

what I keep going over and over in my head is this: the discussion has narrowed down to one issue: should the convention be making up lists of vids that merit warnings even if the vidder exercises the 'choose not to warn' option. A compromise that has been suggested is for the VJs to offer a general warning for each vid show tailored to the content of the vid show without singling out vids or putting the vids on a 'list'. That way, people who have triggers can get the info they need about what vid shows to attend, and the 'choose not warn' option is allowed to remain what it is - a choice.

why the participants are trying to reframe the discussion into something else confuses me when there seems to be a perfectly workable compromise. It won;t make absolutists on either side happy, but then again, absolutes rarely make for good policy. or good times.

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I see polls as a way to gauge a group of people. Nothing is binding and VVC has never claimed to be a democractic entity. There's no way that I can see of deciding on something that will make everyone happy.

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I don't have a problem with a poll, I think it's a great idea.
But you are still stuck with the problem that some options are considered as 'unjust' and 'unethical' by some people. And if one of those got a majority this just would re-fuel the debate and disagreements.

Watching from the sidelines it looks like they are working towards a system where the concom provides warnings for those interested individuals.

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Yes, I'm going. I kind of put it in the hand of the Gods and registered late, but a number of people dropped out, and I'm in.

Not sure I did the right thing now. Last years after-storm really put me off going, and I was hoping to 'test the waters' first at a con somewhere else. But since I've not read anything else about the proposed VidUKon '11 or the Aussie con I thought I'd give VVC a try, worst that can happen is jet lag, less money in the bank and a stomach ulcer.

I was so happy for you when I read your post about spending much less time on LJ because RL is so good to you, that's the way it should be! But still missing you...

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Oh, then we're in the same position! Except I'm more personally responsible for the failure of Vidukon and Aussie con to get off the ground. Specifically with the Australian con, I can tell you exactly the situation, which is that

nushanakt has more work commitments than anticipated and I reluctantly had to admit that organising the con single-handed wasn't realistic for me. The academic conference (http://revise2010.blogspot.com/) is still occurring and there may be an informal meet up of any vidders that attend but yeah... I am sad about it and I have been meaning to make an announcement but it's been very anxiety-provoking for me. Clearly I'm getting better though since I'm able to comment to you! :)

Anyway, I'll be at VVC and totally have had mixed feelings about it too. I too am going in a 'oh well give it a try' way. It's actually pretty weird for me because as you know I've been out of fandom so much lately... kind of ironic that I'm going this year when I really truly don't care, and not last year when I really badly wanted to go! LOL, such is life. But it will be cool to meet you! I'm so glad you'll be there. :) We will be newbies together!

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I think eventually a poll would be the best idea to gauge the commnuity. I'm pretty sure the results can be made unviewable to everyone else. I see polls as a way to gauge a group of people. Nothing is binding and VVC has never claimed to be a democractic entity.

I think there are a lot of people not voicing their ideas and view on the subject. In private I've conversed with a couple people that are brillant and fresh perpectives and thoughts, but won't voice them publicly for varying reasons. I think a poll would give them a much less "confrontational" way to express themselves. (I use confrontational because I can't think of a better way to say it.)

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Having a poll without making the result openly available is brilliant idea, that didn't even occur to me. That way the concom can see how the land lies before committing themselves to any changes.

I totally agree about people withdrawing from the debate and either having conversations only in private spaces or not voicing their ideas at all. For that reason I am not sure that what currently is being worked on by astolat (and kudos to her for taking that piece of work on) can truly be called a consensus.

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I think what astolat is facilitating is the best thing going right now. It's proactive and it's creating something that's working toward a positive goal. It's not really a consensus because there are people that aren't paricipating either because they don't want to, can't, or choose not to. I don't think there's anyway for a true consensus to be reached for everyone because there are always people not voicing their opinions for various reasons. And that is a large factor in the discussion at large, or at least what I'm getting from it. There will always be people with unheard voices and that's an important issue, which is present in even the construction of a consensus.

(I think I'm being clear, but I usually hang back publicly and I'm not elegant with my words.)

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Oh, so excited now! I didn't realize you were coming, too, I'd love to get to know you in person.

But don't you dare talking about failure with regards to the cons!!! You tried, and it was not to be. You should feel proud of yourself for having the courage to try rather than feeling guilty about it not happening this time. I wouldn't even know where to start with something like that.

I guess going to the con when you are feeling less involved can be a good thing. If things go well you will be pleasantly surprised, and if it doesn't meet your expectations you will feel less aggrieved by it. Well, at least that's what I'm telling myself.

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