kiki_miserychic: A Dinosaur and Kate Spade Shoes Fairytale (Default)
[personal profile] kiki_miserychic
vid title: Closer ("For Jamie")
music: String Quartet Tribute to Nine Inch Nails
source: 9 Songs, Lie With Me, and Shortbus
duration: 3:35
warning: This vid contains full name and female nudity, as well as sexually explicit scenes. You must be over 16 or over the age of consent for your country, whichever is greater, to view this vid.
summary: A meta!porn vid using movies with various levels of real sex. I wanted to explore the point when voyerism becomes participation, the nature of vidding, the blurry line between art and pornography, and sex itself.
notes: I promised [livejournal.com profile] kuwdora I would post our chat to go along with the vid, so those are here:


download: 30mb avi

XneyStripped (11:34:04 PM): A lot of it is waiting for source. I doing one that's porn meta and I have a long wait for the last movie from Blockbuster.
kuwdora (11:35:10 PM): Ohh, porn meta huh.
XneyStripped (11:35:22 PM): It uses Shortbus, Lie with Me, and 9 Songs, which are movies of various levels of real sex. I used the Jamie footage from Shortbus to make a meta statement about how vidding...
XneyStripped (11:35:48 PM): pretty much is fan porn
kuwdora (11:36:35 PM): That is fucking awesome.
XneyStripped (11:36:49 PM): For research I watched a bunch of porn and I was left with one question: why is there so much spit in porn?!?!? There is not that much in my sex life. Am I doing it wrong? o_0
kuwdora (11:37:06 PM): Someone on my flist awhile go actually recced a video that was a porn pairing, using thesee two porn actors I didn't know and making it into a storyline to the Magnetic Fields.
kuwdora (11:37:11 PM): LOL
XneyStripped (11:37:37 PM): Coolness. I think every vid should have some porn to go with it.
kuwdora (11:37:37 PM): You definitiely should make sure to put that comment in your vidder's notes.
kuwdora (11:38:03 PM): Yes.
XneyStripped (11:38:26 PM): I am going to because I'm seriously concerned. How is *haaacktooo* a sexy sound?
kuwdora (11:38:52 PM): *facepalms and laughs*
XneyStripped (11:40:37 PM): And who actually says, "oh yeah, fuck my tight little pussy" during sex? Only porn stars whose vagina is probably like throwing a hotdog down a hallway.
kuwdora (11:41:19 PM): Perhaps you should make a vid that comments on those kinds of particulars. >_>
kuwdora (11:41:42 PM): real sex vs. commercialized fantasy sex.
XneyStripped (11:42:18 PM): See that's thing... Does a movie with real sex automatically make it porn?
kuwdora (11:42:55 PM): Well, one has to define porn first.
XneyStripped (11:43:31 PM): If real sex equals porn, then Risky Business is a porn because many people in the crew claim that the leads really had sex. It's hard to define porn.
kuwdora (11:43:38 PM): Generally porn is considered anything that stimulates arousal, erotic feelings in a person, with the full *intention* of making somebody aroused.
kuwdora (11:44:11 PM): there's like an awareness behind the deal that's like "Yes, this is supposed to turn you on."
kuwdora (11:44:55 PM): Real sex isn't for show, it's intetention is for their partners arsoual and no one else's.
kuwdora (11:45:10 PM): real sex turns into porn when people do the voyouer thing and webcam themselves for the world to see.
XneyStripped (11:45:29 PM): Hmm, I've been thinking more on the terms of sex and art, sex and pornography, etc.
kuwdora (11:45:56 PM): I think those are different sides framing the same picture.
XneyStripped (11:46:13 PM): Speaking of webcam porn, there's an art thingy that someone did where they took all the shots in online porn where the people look at the camera.
XneyStripped (11:46:18 PM): It's creepy.
kuwdora (11:46:25 PM): :-/
XneyStripped (11:47:37 PM): Out of all the porn sites that I looked at, only one was cool.
XneyStripped (11:48:27 PM): Seriously. Where is the good porn people?

XneyStripped (11:53:48 PM): The only cool site I found was http://ifeelmyself.com/public/main.php

kuwdora (11:54:11 PM): Do you know of ... oh, shit, what's the name of the website..
kuwdora (11:54:31 PM): It's the one where people submit videos of themselves masturbating, but it's only video of their faces and nothing else.
XneyStripped (11:55:03 PM): Ohhh, looking at the site, I've totally heard of Blowfish. I saw a documentary that meantioned it.
XneyStripped (11:55:19 PM): beautifulagony?
kuwdora (11:55:21 PM): OH there's an ad for it on the website you just gave me. Beautiful Agony.
kuwdora (11:55:32 PM): Yeah, I thought that one was interesting premise.
XneyStripped (11:55:36 PM): yep, that one was interesting too.
kuwdora (11:55:40 PM): Actually makes it kind of good reference when writing porn.
XneyStripped (11:56:01 PM): I know! I totally used some it for my Femslash day porn.
XneyStripped (11:56:31 PM): I was like, "oh, so that's interesting", then I took out the spitting.
...
kuwdora (11:56:37 PM): LOL spitting.

It's entirely odd to see her username with a strike through it. Strikethroughs make the baby Jesus sad... And onto the meta porn.

Date: 2008-11-03 05:49 am (UTC)
ext_2208: image of romaine brooks self-portrait, text "Lila Futuransky" (snakewoman)
From: [identity profile] heyiya.livejournal.com
OMG. That vid was kind of like a three minute orgasm. I am having trouble expressing myself clearly right now, but I love this on so many levels. First of all it is UNUTTERABLY HOT. And then it has all the commentary on gaze and objectification with everyone wanking to everyone else and staring at themselves and performing for each other and mirrors and being bemused and elated by the weirdness that is sex. And commodifying it for the movies and the viewers and the money and each other. And that would be a pretty satisfying (heh) vid all on its own.

But THEN there is the media. Not only the filming of sex and watching it on screen but the editing and cutting and vidding of it, the video for Jamie that is the video you cut and edited and made and we are watching. We see our own, vidders' and vid fans', erotics of media manipulation overlaid on the bodies of the hot people having sex.

Which THEN (or, I guess, first) you meta up another level with the soundtrack and its connection to fandom and vidding and porn-splicing and media indiscretion! The implicit lyrics about breaking and desecrating and fucking (with) a person/a source, the implicit visuals and story of the ST vid to "Closer" getting out of hand, closing the circle of erotic mediation...

Well. I'll be in my bunk. Writing theory.

Date: 2008-11-03 12:31 pm (UTC)
ext_841: (seaborn (by monanotlisa))
From: [identity profile] cathexys.livejournal.com
i'll just say word to heyiya's analysis/description (she has a tendency to articulate what i can't :) I love the way things are alluded to only, the way it sits smack in a discursive community that doesn't even need the text to Closer to have tons of connotations.

Theory is hot is definitely my own personal subtitle to this.

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From: [identity profile] kiki-miserychic.livejournal.com - Date: 2008-11-03 01:37 pm (UTC) - Expand

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Date: 2008-11-03 12:41 pm (UTC)
ext_841: (buffy (by monanotlisa))
From: [identity profile] cathexys.livejournal.com
I keep on thinking about the porn!=erotica and where do we fit in discussion. And my realization that I used to be able to let my kids watch vids where I had to be careful to not let them see my fic, but that's not the case any more...

And the visual/written porn distinction with its potential genderedness...

If porn is meant to arouse--can something be other than porn and still arouse???

[And why can't I get shortbus at Blockbuster? Or should the more interesting fact be that I can get the other two there? :)]

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From: [identity profile] kiki-miserychic.livejournal.com - Date: 2008-11-03 01:46 pm (UTC) - Expand

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Date: 2008-11-03 01:31 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] kiki-miserychic.livejournal.com
My job here is done.

I've been reading so many academic papers, but I lack the ability to express myself in written or verbal form. But vidding I know how to do. So this is my response to all the thought provoking meta and academia I've been devouring.

The Closer track fit exactly with what I wanted to do. I did have brief doubt because I thought using it would be soaked in hipster bullshit, but I think it worked well. There's a lot of baggage that comes along with the song I hope that comes across.

I am so very pleased that these things come out for you. I was hoping that at least a fourth of what you got from the vid would come across. So YAY!

And I'll be in my bunk. Reading your theory and making porn vids. :)

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Date: 2008-11-03 06:53 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] milly.livejournal.com
I wish I could say I felt even mild shock at the subject matter. Well, not really.

I shall leave feedback when my eyes don't burn so much and I can download and watch properly.

Date: 2008-11-03 07:06 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] milly.livejournal.com
I HEAR YA on the spitting. I'm just like O_o 'I'm not the type to get grossed out easily, but I don't allow sex partners to spit on me like that', for real.

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From: [identity profile] kiki-miserychic.livejournal.com - Date: 2008-11-03 01:33 pm (UTC) - Expand

Date: 2008-11-03 01:32 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] kiki-miserychic.livejournal.com
EHhehehe, yeah, it's pretty impossible for someone to be shocked by something in my vids anymore. No one bats an eyelash at them now. :)

Hopefully the porn didn't make your eyes burn.

Date: 2008-11-03 03:31 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] beccatoria.livejournal.com
Dude, like you I struggle with theory; not so much the babbling randomly about character motivations fannish meta but proper theory in part, at least, because of the specialised language barrier and also because theory tends to be always that tiny bit out of my intellectual grasp. I can understand...parts; fragments of the idea and apply them to the things I'm interested in, but when I try to lay it all out neatly, it's like clenching sand in my fist. Theory is this big, awesome, wild, weird mash of ideas that's too big for me to concentrate on all at once.

And (I apologise, this comment is turning into an essay about me rather than your vid, but I'll get to that momentarily, I promise!) I think like you, that's why I've started really appreciating vids as an expressive medium, especially for shows as theoretically complex as BSG. It's...less exhausting than trying to say it with words.

Which is a long way of saying, this vid makes me want to point at it and go YES THAT EVERYTHING THAT VID SAYS *FLAIL*, without any actual ability to articulate what I think that vid said, which I feel bad about because it deserves awesome feedback.

Suffice to say, had I the words, I'm pretty sure they would be something like [livejournal.com profile] heyiya's.

And the music choice is is envioronmentally and culturally fucking inspired.

(Also, word about the spit. I mean, no offence to spitters, but spit is not sexy. Too much spit is decidedly unsexy. WHY WITH THE SPIT, PEOPLE?)

Date: 2008-11-03 11:28 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] kiki-miserychic.livejournal.com
Meta I can do. I can meta like there's no tomorrow, but theory is where I fail. I never feel adequately equipped to speak on subjects. I'm not smart enough or something. Like you, I understand bits and pieces, but I don't get everything.

This is is about you. It's about me too. It's about everyone, so your commenting being an essay about yourself is the perfect comment.

Words usually fail me, so vidding can take the place as my form of communication in the academic area of fannishness.

I'm glad I'm not alone in confusion over all the spit.

Date: 2008-11-10 06:55 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] morgandawn.livejournal.com
very intriguing. made me go all thinky with porn.

fyi....I don;t know if Vimeo has updated their adult footage policies, but you may want to password protect the vid.

Date: 2008-11-11 04:56 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] kiki-miserychic.livejournal.com
Thanks.

It didn't dawn on me to password it. Thanks.

but....but...it's ART!

From: [identity profile] morgandawn.livejournal.com - Date: 2008-11-11 04:58 am (UTC) - Expand

Re: but....but...it's ART!

From: [identity profile] kiki-miserychic.livejournal.com - Date: 2008-11-11 05:12 am (UTC) - Expand

Date: 2008-11-11 03:18 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] mresundance.livejournal.com
I totally didn't read the notes before I downloaded and watched, so I just watched it. I have to say I found the visual parallels between the three movies intriguing. I've only ever watched Shortbus, though. Having read the notes, I see how it all clicks together now, more or less, and it gives a lot of food for thought. I almost wonder at the place of fanfic, manips, and vids which use manips/overlays/whathaveyou in relation.

I was particularly intrigued by the emphasis on the female nude in the vid - it was nearly a focal point in and of itself - the female body - as an eroticized object. I am not sure I like it, in fact, nor have I sorted out all my thoughts on it. I think it merely reminded me how women's bodies are so eroticized to the point of making them objects rather than bodies which belong to a person in my culture. I think that emphasis, therefore, disturbed me for that reason. Having not seen all the films, I would venture to say that it may stand to reason that there may have been more scenes/attention paid to the female nude, and hence, more material of a female nude for you as vidder to draw upon.

Having seen Shortbus I would say it's more equitable in some ways in it's depiction of nudity all around in general. (Plus, totally not in the vid, but the humming of the nation anthem? I don't think I'll ever get that out of my head. Hah.)

I am curious what you're thoughts are on this point - the eroticization and objectification of the female nude - just for general discussion overall, but if you'd rather not, that's ok too. I enjoyed the vid and I could write you reams on the great timing and editing. But as it's meta, I got my thinky!thoughts hat on.
Edited Date: 2008-11-11 03:21 am (UTC)

Date: 2008-11-11 04:53 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] kiki-miserychic.livejournal.com
Thanks for the thoughts. I'm always up for discussion.

I wasn't sure if I wanted to include this many notes with the vid at first. I'm usually one for putting the vid out there and letting the viewer interpret it. After talking with a few people, I decided to have a bunch of notes for this one because my intent gets lost in my vids. It's something I'm working on.

The visuals between the movies are somewhat similar and I intentionally looked for paralleled frames and angles to tie the three sources together.

Part of my thoughts on the vid come from my thoughts on manips and their use in vids. I did I Want You (She's So Heavy) where I took characters and made them have sex. It says something to me about fandom where we take characters and essentially make them have sex in new and interesting ways.

There's a lot of me in this vid as far as my own personal issues.

I was particularly intrigued by the emphasis on the female nude in the vid - it was nearly a focal point in and of itself - the female body - as an eroticized object.
I used to female body to try and bring out the pornography/art theme. In both pornography and art, the female form has central use. Viewers have different thoughts on objectification or glorification, of course. I could ramble, but a lot of my thoughts are not fully formed for written expression as much as vidding.

Lie With Me and 9 Songs have straight story lines, which leads to more female scenes. The directors paid far more attention to the females as opposed to the males, which leads to more material. I watched a lot of porn before and during the editing. I made the decision to watch the surface, readily available, and free stuff for the general population. And wow. Was it awful. I couldn't watch most of it because it had too much spit, or low quality, or severe objectification. I wanted to study that aspect, but I feel like I more bought into it than commented on it. The female body is more aethstetically pleasing to me because of the angles and lighting.

(Plus, totally not in the vid, but the humming of the nation anthem? I don't think I'll ever get that out of my head. Hah.)
Jamie: Was that the first time someone sang the National Anthem into your ass?
Ceth: No.

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From: [identity profile] mresundance.livejournal.com - Date: 2008-11-11 08:08 pm (UTC) - Expand

Date: 2008-11-13 08:46 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] 0mindthegap0.livejournal.com
This was really amazing - once you see the working on the timeline at 1:10, you can just totally see where the point is headed.

What's really interesting too is how much more the girls are getting head. I haven't seen a lot of that basic mainstream het porn on the internet (because, wow, it really is that bad), but am pretty sure it tends to be the other way around. Like arty film porn is more For Us. Which goes right back to the other point. Wow.

Date: 2008-11-14 01:48 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] kiki-miserychic.livejournal.com
Thank you.

I debated how soon to bring in the vidding aspect. I wanted to set up the other things before starting the vidding meta.

The women receiving oral sex came about for a couple reasons. Honestly, I think pensises are ugly and the scenes of men getting blowjobs had angles I didn't like, so I didn't want to use them. The scenes of the women were shot more stylistically, which made me want to use them too.

Date: 2008-11-30 03:12 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] stultiloquentia.livejournal.com
I am ... so intrigued. And I'm enjoying the comments up above, too.

One thing I find interesting about my own reaction is that I didn't find most of those clips especially arousing or captivating as porn, though they were completely captivating as pieces of your vid narrative/thesis. I'm not exactly an experienced porn watcher, so I trotted over to pornotube to see what else the world has to offer, and yeah, decontextualized sex is boring boring boring. Which makes me think about PWP fanfic, which I like just fine ... but good PWP may not have plot, but it has tons of character ... which is noticeably missing from much commercial stuff. Heh. This may require further research! *jots down titles you clipped for your vid*

The one exception was the clip right at the very end, with the woman bracing up on her arms and looking straight at the camera with a tiny, bedroom-eyed smile. That made me go, "Whoa," and think thinky thoughts about who that woman is in the vid -- some combination of author/performer/character that we all are as we write/perform for each other in fandom, exposing ourselves through our written fantasies, using characters as conduits, etc. I don't know if the point is to pin down exactly who the woman is, but her gaze and her placement in the vid make her powerful -- a subject, an artist figure (even if her only art is making good sex) with a knowing, desiring gaze turned back on the viewer, rather than just an object being gazed at. She's fascinating.

>lj user="paian"> just posted an SG-1 story (http://paian.livejournal.com/120124.html?style=mine) today (utterly readable as origfic) that's about characters watching porn, watching each other watch porn, making porn (starring other people) for each other, and even being watched by the pornographer. It's a really cool piece of fandom to pair up with this vid.

I love fandom! I love that you made this bold thing.

Date: 2008-12-01 02:46 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] kiki-miserychic.livejournal.com
Wow. Thanks for the feedback.

I had hoped that the vid brought out personal reactions and reflections on the subjects and themes. I still don't know the answers to my questions. I realized it's all up to the viewers and producers. I still don't understand porn either. The line is so blurry between porn and art. Add to that I don't have a definition of what porn even is.

Most porn is awful awful awful.

*jots down titles you clipped for your vid*
All three are interesting movies. You would get a whole different reading of the vid too.

YES! I totally wanted the Warrior Woman, as I called her, to have play a large role and ask those questions.

Date: 2008-12-01 01:57 am (UTC)
ext_7893: (Default)
From: [identity profile] mikes-grrl.livejournal.com
I'm so glad this isn't locked down. I got here through a rec by a fandom friend, and I'm so glad I did. I've been having a lot of discussions about "What IS porn for women?" on my LJ lately; like you, I'm not sure I understand porn/not-porn. I've taken to calling what most people call "porn" as "Mainstream porn" just so everyone knows what I'm talking about. But I try to explain slash fiction to my husband and he just doesn't consider it porn.

This video was beautiful, and honestly, I was totally unfamiliar with the movies used in it. I will be sure to hunt them down, they look important. Thanks SO much for making this, and posting it! May I link back to this post in a recommendation on my own LJ? If not, okay, but I sure would love for many, many people to see this excellent and thought-provoking vid. ♥

Date: 2008-12-01 03:29 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] kiki-miserychic.livejournal.com
I don't understand what porn is any more than I did before I started the vid. Mainstream porn is the best term.

Thanks. There are maybe 3 people in the world who have watched all three movies.

Link away. I'm a whore for recommendations.

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From: [identity profile] mikes-grrl.livejournal.com - Date: 2008-12-01 03:50 am (UTC) - Expand

Date: 2008-12-01 05:53 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] j-s-cavalcante.livejournal.com
Truly amazing vid. I've seen at least two of those films. And I love the music choice here.

I don't even have anything vaguely coherent to say about it, except that I think our community needs LOTS more meta on whatever this thing is that we're doing here, with the fic and the art and the vids, and so on. We're making something that hasn't been available to women, at least openly and on this scale, ever before. Something that satisfies what mainstream media are not giving us...because they're really not making it for us. Your vid is fascinating commentary on...well, on both, I think. What mainstream media are making...and what we're remaking out of it. (And I LOVE that the major "vidder" in your vid is male!)

This one will bear some rewatching and lots of thinking about, and I'll definitely rec it as well.

Thanks for sharing it!

Date: 2008-12-02 12:37 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] kiki-miserychic.livejournal.com
Cool. I only know of people who've watched one of the movies. It's great to hear someone has watched two. :)

Meta is a deep love of mine. I want to take a bath in it... but it would probably leave me dirty.

Thanks!

Date: 2008-12-15 10:22 pm (UTC)
luzula: a Luzula pilosa, or hairy wood-rush (Default)
From: [personal profile] luzula
Huh, this was very interesting. I have nothing smart to say right now, but it made me think, and I'll definitely be rewatching it.

Date: 2008-12-16 02:24 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] kiki-miserychic.livejournal.com
Thanks. :) No thinky thoughts required.

Date: 2010-04-05 08:51 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] were-duck.livejournal.com
I am way late to this party but this vid is incredible! It is incredibly hot and thinky in the best way.

Date: 2010-04-17 03:00 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] kiki-miserychic.livejournal.com
Thanks! I loved making it. :)

Date: 2010-05-15 01:02 am (UTC)
eruthros: Delenn from Babylon 5 with a startled expression and the text "omg!" (Default)
From: [personal profile] eruthros
I followed a rec here and was sad to see that the download link doesn't seem to be working -- is there a new link?

Date: 2010-05-15 04:05 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] kiki-miserychic.livejournal.com
new link. (http://www.sendspace.com/file/rxlurm)

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From: [personal profile] eruthros - Date: 2010-05-15 05:06 pm (UTC) - Expand

Date: 2012-12-23 03:04 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] geekbynight.livejournal.com
I found your vid via rec and it's really impressive! I'd really like to download it and put it on my ipod but the link doesn't work anymore. If it's not too much trouble, would you be able to upload it again?

Date: 2012-12-29 07:09 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] kiki-miserychic.livejournal.com
I had to dig for this, wow, I feel old. (http://www.sendspace.com/file/e8okxo) :)

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Date: 2015-03-11 02:39 pm (UTC)
shirasade: x-men movie: half-naked logan; text: sex without touching (x-men - sex without touching (logan))
From: [personal profile] shirasade
Hiya there - I know this post is kind of old, but this is one of my favouritest vids, and sadly my external HD died on me, taking my download of it with it. :( Any chance for a re-upload?

(Seriously, this vid is so awesome - it's hot, and then it makes you think about it.)

Date: 2015-05-28 10:38 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] kiki-miserychic.livejournal.com
LJ stopped sending me notifications, so this is from a while ago, but: https://www.sendspace.com/file/a4r0db

And thank you. :)

(no subject)

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